crowd was so fair, let me be clear. [applause] >> the problem with banning any book is that once you ban one, we don't know where will start. it is the fountainhead for all history. >> reairing ernie pyle's albuquerque house that he shared with his wife, gerry. his writing style when you are reading him, you are there. >> at the start of the east end of albuquerque come you can travel 18 miles on old route 66 comments in main street and central avenue.

>> it is to deploy a server of my friends for so long, what about regretted the war as i was out with them when it ended for the companionship of two and a half years of death and misery is a spouse that tolerates no divorce, such companionship finally becomes part of one's soul and cannot be obliterated. the experience with ernie pyle miss about you. he wanted to hear that story. he wanted to tell it well and honestly so you could connect with people you have never seen. his early career before he started as a war correspondent, he was a journalist, wound up as managing editor for the washington daily times. at a certain point he got tired of being stuck in the office and

managed to sell them on the ideas being a roving reporter. so he and his wife would pack up the car and in exchange for six columns a week, they traveled the country. he was always committed to telling ordinary people living ordinary lives and they really gave him a chance to exercise telling a story beautifully and simply connecting people of all different types all across the country. as the war was starting, they decided they needed a home base. they decided on albuquerque and built this house. if you look at the house in the context of the neighboring houses, it's a little midwestern house with a white picket fence in the southwestern city, but was a way to connect his albuquerque home against indiana bruce, which are very important to him. they moved in the house in 1940. he was dead by the end of it all

in 1845 and jerry died in november of that year. it was her heirs who made the decision to give the house to the city of albuquerque and openness in library and not over 1948. when he got in the european theater and was kind of the prototype for them into the order, although he did it better than anyone has done since he was in the foxhole getting paid in by insights, going to the manuscripts of columns published right before our right after he started stacking about a soldier from albuquerque and their main connection as they both have their eyes full and shut because of mosquito bites. my favorite writing turns out that the end if you're a "star wars." the ad was not in sight. they had wrapped at the african campaign successfully, but they didn't know what was next and they didn't know where to go and they love so many behind. he ends with a passage about all you can do if you want us the

crosses full text and murmured thanks, pal. he understood the hardship and the loneliness. he admixture in the strong sense of fairness. looking at it from the 21st century of what it meant to the people at home. you're in tennessee and your brothers in the infantry after d-day and here is the columnist journalist had been heating for brother and told the story that it always makes you laugh and the distance in world war ii is very different than our contemporary wars. part of closing that distance is making sure people understood exactly what that war on the ground was like. he was connected to which human beings need. one of the more famous works that appears in a lot of the collection is on the death of captain wasco. as quoted on the monument in the back of the library.

it's a beautiful piece of writing. this is simply told story of a man people cared about who died doing his duty. the passage is one of those enduringly powerful. he shot from being a respected columnist during peacetime but they could book or two and a lot of name recognition to being in some ways an international celebrity. he won the pulitzer. people listen to them. he was able to leverage that, so the ernie pyle bill that that is commensurate soldier raised was an amazing piece of advocacy. one of the things growing up was one of those great stories of the war and there is a column published and i don't know if those redact it or not. he said i ran into sergeant joseph euclid and his brother.

in europe the navajo circuit encoded transmission because only one knob was still understanding out there. these guys are doing the same thing out here. so whether they made it into print or not i would have to check. the sergeant he was talking to had gone to albuquerque. there's a piece where he's talking about the b-29 pilots in the pacific theater or the island or wherever they based. the flying took so much out of them that pretty much between missions, it was solid downtime and all recoveries in a tax with the pilots need is a quota, some hope for when they're going to be done. some had come from the european front to do this in the pacific and just as sense that they needed to have an end in sight

and washington "washington post" and putting those kinds of numbers to. it was another powerful piece about 50 c. but this is the these guys need that they're not getting. it was tragic. he was killed a sniper fire on hiroshima, japan on the 17th of april, 1945. it was risky to recover his body. he got permission to attend the recovery and was able to bring him back. his 13 in pencil in his hand writing. he's actually been twice, and sharing other casualties from hiroshima and that was reburied at the national cemetery on oak and now i am the soldiers themselves raise the monument for them. one of his living memorials is this house here in albuquerque, which i think is fitting because

even in the war correspondent elizabeth ordinary people living ordinary lives. his purple heart though signaled solidarity with soldiers because not many civilians earn a purple heart. so many people were sending condolences to his wife, gerry. roosevelt had died very shortly and truman had assumed the presidency and this is really touching thing from a lady who said i love our president, but it really that your president and i'm so sorry he's gone. the neighbors had come by and people passing through who knew he lived in albuquerque would come by. during the time between his dad, they would come and there is a nurse who is taking care of jerry and they would ask for not a graph and she kept a box with the signatures cut off of canceled checks and she would give this to people who wanted that little piece of memory. he made it look easy.

if you done any kind of writing, what he did was not easy and he made it look very natural. i think he worked hard and it took a lot of courage to do what he did and never said that about himself. don't think we have any contemporary comparisons to ernie pyle. i don't office the way we report it has changed so much for just that he had that remarkable combination of the human touch in the extraordinary writing skills. he had the kind of credibility that the generals had to acknowledge. they couldn't ignore the common soldier. the story without error. it totally unclever as the war. it was a do or die time anyways and important war to end up lasting legacy of telling a story in a way people could connect with and remember humanize the people who force

the politicians who might've wanted to move quickly to other things. they have been so many people trusted in ways that they didn't trace the generals in the politicians. he force to be reckoned with. these are the things he would tell me not even try to understand. to you at home there figures or one that went to and just didn't come back. you didn't see hemlines so grotesque and pasty besides the gravel road and france. we saw him by the. that's the difference.

>> welcome to bookworks. we are here in albuquerque, new mexico a few miles north of old town and just off the 40 on the rio grande. the store opened in 1984. nancy rutland opened it and it was one third the size. so she expanded it over for 28 years that she owned it and i started working for her and 2006 and in 2010 man my partner purchased it and october 2010 and we found that for a little over two years and it's been quite a ride. we are heavy in bringing authors from national famous authors from all over the country.

and world-renowned authors as well. we have a heavy event schedule, where we have a lot going on in stores as well as side of the store. there's authors who can't get everybody that wants to come see them were used outside of places. sherman alexy came and spoke and we had a great event for that. it's a part of other people that that work here. it's not a department. a department is one person i will have to work together to support each other and make events happening. there's so many small groups interested in so many different things. so if you're interested in something, albuquerque is such a talent for everyone to have an idea, an interest, curiosity. so the interest is fast, but also particular. but it's like you get everything

you're interested and that's what i might be interesting where someone might be interested in is nice because there's somebody there might also find that interesting as well or interesting enough to take a look at her take it home with them. so i feel fortunate -- you know, you don't know what anyone will buy at one point in time what they want, you just don't know. but you get an idea. so this scene here as it's just nice having a place where people can come and share their ideas and to come together around a topic or an author or the events we provide or just talking with other customers. having a safe place, people that don't sit in the same pews on other days of the week and can share their different ideas. it's nice to be able to have a place like that. owning a bookstore is a wild

ride. it's pushing a one wheeled wagon uphill and it's difficult with the team and the love of books and having the community supporting us. i couldn't do without the community support. we begun to fast. they chose everybody wanted to read digital and only support a big conglomerate. and it could have been. who knows what could have been. it is so a fee. but it's kind of just going for it. it's sharing a story, sharing a book and then handing up it to someone else and handy map it to someone else. when i try to do something digital i lose it loose interest or my battery dies but there's other factors that i don't get from the bookstore.

i just love this place. i wanted to keep going. without my partner and my staff and the community, i wouldn't be able to. it's such a crazy thing. but maybe i'm just silly enough to do it. rudolfo anaya is on next. his vote, said three is in public schools. >> "bless me, ultima" has been banned many times, especially in

classrooms i think simply because of the sometimes a parent doesn't understand a novel. i haven't read it. there's been cases where school boards are parents have asked to ban the novel. it turns out they just haven't read it. it words or phrase search here or there. but i'm glad to say that in every instance where censorship of the novel ship has happened, every instance i know of, the community, parents, families have gone to disclose and said look, this is our literature. this is important literature and you can't ban because you pick a word or two or paragraph. in every case that i know of, the banning has been overturned. in the 60s started writing

"bless me, ultima." his teachings cool and i would write at night. i remember one night and felt the presence in the room and i turned and i saw this old woman standing by the door. and she asked me, what are you doing? i said i'm writing a story. she said you'll never get it right until you put me in a. and i said who are you? but she said ultima. and that is how that vision of the healer came and filled the novel with her soul, with a presence, with our history, hispanics in new mexico, their

religion, the folktales but our grandmas told. i put her in the novel and her relationship to antonio becomes crucial. she becomes a mentor, a guide that can take antonio into new ways of thinking, and to the natural world. she teaches the river speaks. the river has a soul. she teaches him about herbs, how to be careful when you gather their herbs for the healing. and this relationship, she becomes antonio's mentor, his guide and people i think are your name for that. they want to see that. we have too many books into many

movies or a call of explosions racks and these fantastic fires and people yearned for more basic stories and the relationship of ultima. and the novel -- the very important part of the novel is one of the alcoa sees three which is doing the ceremony, but at night at the river. and then they put a curse on them and the family goes on the family goes to the dock to her at another town. and so they come to ultima who

they know is willing to help and has some knowledge of how to lift a curse. that becomes a crucial part of the novel. some people object to that. i don't know why. since harry potter and everything else, you wonder why they still pick on the novel. from the very beginning, there were the names of the novel in schools. we have to remember the reason of his band in schools is because it is being used by teachers who left it out of his guide for their students. and number two, it usually is just one family.

the report said that the book and say this say this is outrageous. i don't like the language of the fat that it's about witchcraft. and then the community and students rights have been female, this is a valuable novel is about a lot of things, not just language and witchcraft. the problem with banning any book is that once you ban one, we don't know where we'll start and that road takes us back to totalitarian state and i don't think we want that. there are ways to schools of preparing students for what they read and discussion and bringing parents and say that it's been

and students can be challenged by reading all sorts of books because going down that censorship road is not good. it never ends and we know what that two. >> next we hear from dave dewitt, author of "growing medical marijuana" and his efforts across america to legalize medical marijuana. >> i was a grower in the 70s, mostly my basement under grow lights that were fluorescent lights. and i did pretty good at it. i used a book to use as my guide because there's no grow guide for marijuana in those states. if a sweet it's not hard to grow.

when i cannot hear, i found that new mexico is legalizing medical marijuana. i was curious about it and interested in it because it's part of a national movement that's happening. so why do a grower who's older than i am if you can believe that i'm attracted his first year this occurs underground. he managed a pretty good job. i hope to god a little bit of attractive successes, failures, triumphs, disappointments, the whole thing. there's 20 states now in the district of columbia that have some form of medical marijuana. that's washington and colorado, which of course is our northern neighbor. >> in addition to cease making money, they're making recreational marijuana because the legalize it. so here's what happened in the state of washington team.

they privatize sensei to pressure from cosco, which is based in washington. so while these liquor stores were sitting vacant and the legalize marijuana. who do you suppose is going in this vacant stores? you're right, medical marijuana stores are marijuana stores in general. of course they will be taxed and regulated in this state is expected to make tens of millions of dollars to start with is and i think, this is my opinion, once other states see the money being generated for marijuana but i see the legal are the guys for medical use is going to persuade the state to legalize it in some form or another. the governments will get involved more and more because they can make money by taxing it at a certain particular. they have to be careful that the taxation doesn't put the

marijuana into a price range that somebody's going to bite on the street instead of a dispensary. alcohol is so well-regulated that she don't have the opportunity. should i buy my from walgreens walgreens -- that doesn't happen all that much in my opinion. but it ain't the states are smart. they have to fill holes in revenue. we have to educate our children. the money and bad years is just not there. they have to have some other substance to bring in the money. this alcohol and cigarettes, they have your money. organized groups oppose legalization, but she can't find very many of them. more importantly though is the national organization for the marijuana laws failed miserably in its attempts to the cloister regional marijuana. but then seized upon medical marijuana had enormous success.

just like they say, you spoke a little bit of marijuana and mixture onto. in this case can be smoke legal medical marijuana and yearned to full legalization concert of a steppingstone. the ones that have legalized it r.d. have medical marijuana. just a development thing if people give our customers, not so shocking to know that. the next state to legalize possibly be new york. that is my opinion. the northern north liberal states in the western states in particular are going to be the states most likely at this point in time. i'm not sure this is the legalize marijuana if they have to be south of the mason dixon line. those are basically republican dominated conservative state and i think it would be unlikely for them to legalize anytime in the

near future with the possible exception of texas. there's a liberal element, mostly based in austin and doubtless that is growing fast and it may not be all conservatives in texas and that could change. especially when they start seeing the amount of money that can be made doing this. it's very tempting for state legislatures. the marijuana cat is out of the bag, folks and the federal government will not be of this stuff is back in because now think what would have been if there are marijuana stores in washington, bringing in a lot of tax income and all of a sudden the federal government tries to shut them down, it would be state great to be she that she would not believe it's going to happen here. the fed diaconate go there. i don't think they can. i don't see how they could take on 20 states. but have another civil war, something like that.

it would be about slavery, the freedom to smoke where one of. >> today you are on the historic suburban library built in 1985 and when the conference room, with one time one of the rings used for rare books materials, which is appropriate since in front of us here is a 3 million foliage the library, which will be celebrated on april 1st and not 3 millionth volume is "the authentic life of billy the kid," one of the single of the most important books of a

western americana, certain for new mexico, but also the western one of the most reversed as well. we only know six copies of this particular edition that is autographed in the country. three of those we know are in private hands. one is here in the other two were not exactly sure where they are. they are not in any other institutions, says through a pleasure for us to have this rare material in our library. it's important because it sets the stage. it is the fountainhead for all billy the kid history or non-history as you can imagine. the intertwining with the facts really stemmed from this book. pat garrett wrote this book in response to a lot of other books being printed in new york city and the east coast that exaggerated the kid and almost

made the kid the hero. pat garrett was then being seen as the guy who ambushed billy, who killed early and he wanted to set the record straight by writing this biography and how it all happened. so it becomes the first account, the only first-hand account we have of what happened that day in july 1881 in fort sumner, new mexico. others from pat's perspective. but it is what everybody else takes the facts from this this book. since this really is the first edition, first printing of an autographed or complimentary copy by the author makes it extremely rare and one that is almost unheard-of, even define now. so few of these still available, which is funny because when they

were first published, maybe a thousand copies were made. but kept a small number of books that are in this rad, red calf leather binding that makes it unique because like i said, it is just surprising tatian copies that pat may dedicate to important people and dignitaries that had his compliments. the other copies were never found. they were just loose. they have the actual hobbit bound themselves perhaps for the good unbound. again, here is the title page with the lease picture. this is an engraving from the only known picture of billy the recently sold for over $2 million. sweeping the images producer. folks were given this loose on

them they had to find it themselves. that really didn't help the sales as well. what the story does is these are on sale in santa fe and a bushel basket of them, not the red ones, but the other copies for a quarter a piece. somebody came by and bought the whole bag and went off. consequently was not the moneymaker they all thought it would be. and because of that it is so rare to have that kind of history with this book. i think the most interesting part is the culmination of the boat, where pat is pretty scheuer believes in the house and he stinks up the house. it's almost like the television

detect the show, wiping out the bad guys in the house and they know their civilians in that house and how did they go about getting that desperado? country. somebody goes in the bedroom and conference -- he doesn't know where billy is. can you imagine there's no life. did kerry say mean things, but there is not much late. so you really have pat venturing into place for a merger might be a good sign and confronts and since it is easier? that's where pete maxwell says he's been around. he doesn't say he hears now. he has been around. so you can imagine pat's level

of anxious anxiety because you don't know where this murdering fellow ways. so until he comes down the hall and into the bedroom and says to pete, who are you talking to? that has been pat accepted to the dark corner and that's the moment in time that a decision is made. do i take him an ally of? do i try to him? that's the time only pat can tell us about. he's the only ones still around i was very happy. when he said really true is gone because apparently he had a gun and a knife. when he drew his gun and pat shanahan, in past night it was self-defense. again, that becomes the real

crux of the entire story. did that really happen that way? did really raise this kind or did pat shoot him? you're waiting for the big climax. so when pat talks about those few minutes of time that really trained all this together, it really is exciting. so i think pat did a good job. >> for a while, pat garrett was the darling of the mexico. he had killed the outlawed, but it was a short time people start asking the question, was it a fair fight? did he really have his gun pulled? was the shot in the back and all these questions started to be asked about it. so all of a sudden he was

feeling like he was becoming the villain instead of the hero. so he then talks to a friend of his named marshall absented who was from back east and asked him to write this book divestiture account once and for all of what really happened. had more than anyone else want to new mexico to read it because he was feeling disdain of being now a tyrant for the bad guys when he really saw himself as the hero to the people of new mexico. for capturing this photo and taking this follow-up the streets. sort even when this first have been, when he first killed the lake, the governor offered a $500 reward and when pat went to

get his $500, the citizens in the mexico-based a thousand dollars to give it to him because they were so pleased with the day. again, for pat, support. i think when that started to be questioned as to what really happened and was billy unarmed and shot in the back and all these rumors started to go around, but pat one of the people of new mexico to know. that is why i think he did not go towards east coast publisher to publish this, that he wanted it published in santa fe so would be available to the people of new mexico to get and read antlered and i was one of the reasons why it wasn't successful because the distribution list that and it didn't get out to where he wanted it to get out. some in the end, even though he wrote this for the short-term, did not benefit from getting his story out. but in the long-term, this

becomes the truth fountainhead for all stories about billy the kid because it's from the first-hand account. over the years, yet people you've people interviewed her ratepayer either on the porch or came in afterwards were from even pete maxwell, saying that they have been? as all these different accounts of what happened in some folks billy was never shot anyway. he escaped in the teddy bear is not billy the kid. so even as late as three years ago, they were trying to serve billy's body to make sure he was in that grave. so there is a lot of questions still unanswered about really the kid and which make this so interesting as in historical phenomenon that intertwines fact and fiction and legend and myth all into one person admitted to

this one boat. it's a great thing for us to have for students and faculty to use and see that original piece. >> you have to understand all the founder's primary concern number one, numero uno was with national security. so what they say, for example, about a company such as lockheed? i am of the opinion based on how they acted in other instances, they would have grudgingly favored a bailout of lockheed because it supplied the united states at the time but its top fighter jet and its top reconnaissance airplane. you can make an argument they would've supported the bailout

of chrysler back in the 1980s, but not the bailout of chrysler today. what's the difference? chrysler back then made tanks. in fact, they were our only tank manufacturer. it's interesting that chrysler comes out of debt and repays the government allowed in kind of comes back to help, but maybe they do so is by selling off the tank division implying that money back into the company. >> we had this incredible inability to digest information, process and operate. we started to get where we could be faster, but we develop a system for find, fix, finish,

exploiting analyzed from a cycle you go through. you find somebody, fix them in a location, finish by capturing or killing. you exploit whatever you capture. you analyze and learn from it. it's basically a learning site and we would do that it would go through that process, but it would be painfully slow because we were operating different organizations, not all arcana to mind in different agencies, intelligence agencies and what not. this may surprise you, but not all parts of the u.s. government work together seamlessly. so here we are and we have these things, links between the part. so one element would find the target, but by the time the information that the people who were going to fix it to make sure they are there then come a time of his passing accuracy of information. then it would be passed over to

the rainforests. again you would have a loss. it's like picking telephone rates and intelligible by the fifth person. we are trying to do things in that system. so we started -- we went on a campaign to fix that process, bringing in parts of the organization, building intelligence capacity, it given ourselves a mindset of his different before. if each element to describe the process, they could take great pride. we succeeded in to what we were told that we wipe spec lead and said nobody successful unless the whole process works. the definition of winning is the same for all of us. only proven this day. there's quite a bit different than what we had. by this summer, things got really bad in late march of 2004 in iraq and that's in the country basically melted down and we started operating as hard as we could to this operational

tempo, how fast can operate. we realize the size of zarqawi's network that we were going to have to hit it a lot and we were going to build a hit it once a month. august 2004 we got about 18 weeks a month without removing a work speed. without this is the most amazing thing we've ever done. we are the most efficient and special operations task force on the face of the earth. we were, but we were still the same. so we came to the conclusion that we have got to speed up more. i've been this fixation on going after the senior leaders seven organization, decapitation and we came to the conclusion that wasn't going to work. we started the war that if we got our zarqawi that the whole thing would fall apart. think of any organization that is a key person is taken out,

does it really get worse? average of the pentagon it would've made it a lot better. so we realized you have to go after the people who do the work pay logistics, communications, and build car bombs, communicate. you got to take this out. so we came up with a strategy. i used to tell people it's like rocky balboa. we're going to hit them in the midsection. so from august of 2004 when we get 18 raid from the two years later come the same months commencing force can the same fate. that is 10 a night. if you stop and say that's a lot. that's impressive. that means every raid on the forces going on at least one every night. every pilot is flying one or two every night and these are not patrols. these are going in the door,

somebody is getting shot. extraordinary. and to do that, you can't use previous systems. got to be out of print and intelligence on an industrial scale. we got to the point where instead of the plastic bags of information on a target, would start to export their computers, phones, tape amateur that come to west virginia from the target to see if we've ever had the person before and if we'd ever had any dealings with them. we witnessed the documents back, send them to multiple places and everybody would be analyzing at the same time and we would be trying to turn this to learn as quickly as he could. we got to the point where we could hit three targets at night from the initial intelligence. who would find shows that the 9:00 at night because we had been looking for him. we find out from what we got on that target about john doe at

midnight and another at 3:00 in the morning. the reason it is important to go fast was because terrorist networks prepare themselves very quick weight. as soon as markets captured, producing and going to hear about it in the first thing is that my location to change all those connections i have because it moves to have. so you've got to be quicker, post to hit targets at quicker they can promote up in leaders. over time we started e-mail qaeda and iraq are down in the relative effectiveness go down because of that. so the tempo became the rocky balboa strategy at pummeling as fast as you can so we can free and then over time have a decisive effect on it, which we did along with a number of other factors.

>> so let's think about how the typical american eats. 90% of the food budget goes towards buying processed food, 90%. 84% of americans beat their children and a fast food restaurant at least once a week and when the consumer enters the grocery store, they are mad by hundreds if not thousands of brands. so as they shop for beverages, they might riot pepsi, gatorade, tropicana, but jim t., sierra mess, but brute ear, and energy, aqua fina, bottled water if they're health-conscious they might i choose. for breakfast they might buy cat didn't crunch, quaker cereal, and jemima, puffed wheat for meals and snacks.

ricer brownie, send checks, cheetahs, tostitos, cracker jacks, doritos or ruffles. but the consumer doesn't realize is all of those brands are owned by pepsi. pepsi is the largest food company in the united states if you want to call those items to. if the second largest in the world. or they might buy a nestlé product and i won't go through all the nestlé brand, but nestle powdered about 6000 brands. they had 94 billion in sales and 10.5 billion in profit. pepsi had about 6.4 billion in profit because nestlé is the biggest food company in the world and not just in the u.s. so basically in every subset sector of the food industry, we

have just a few companies that are controlling all of those brands. 20 companies control the highest percentage of iran's in the grocery store. of those, 14 of those brands control organic food. so big food is basically controlling what people at e. then we have the grocery conglomerate. wal-mart leads the pack along with costco and target, the four largest. wal-mart is by far the largest. one out of every three grocery dollars goes to wal-mart. wal-mart heirs have more wealth than the bottom 40% of all americans. if they wonder why we have a lot of clout and political power. they use this political power to basically dictate food and farm

policy. they speak with one voice and the pesticide regulation, what attrition of regulation is an partnered with the biotech industry, which has also been so powerful they can basically buy public policy to report last year. turns out there are 100 companies lobbying full-time. and of those, they've heard 13 former members of congress than 300 former staffers at the white house and congress. the biotechnology industry has a lot of clout. and wal-mart and months into our partnering up in some ways. one of the ways this recently with engineered -- genetically

engineered sweet corn. you may remember this from last summer. a lot of consumer groups were trying to get wal-mart because they say they want to be sustainable to not buy this sweet corn. but it creates a market and monsanto plans to have very quickly 40% of the market for sweetcorn bevis genetically engineered variety and of course it won't be available. so those who say wal-mart is going to be regionalized a few system really need to look at the lobbying record that wal-mart has. its motto is basically puttis. its motto is basically putting pressure on suppliers to cut cost and uses every trick in the book to do this. i go into great detail about

this and we don't have enough time to really deal with it this evening. but one of the things wal-mart has done effectively to really reduce its cost is by most of its projects, whether it's food or consumer goods, a high percentage of products come from the developing world, especially china and wal-mart and the food processors and grain traders are the biggest proponents of globalizing the food system. they find it advantageous to process, to grow food where it's cheaper and countries with the environmental laws are cheaper, where they can have an easier time dictating policy. and so increasingly, our foods are being produced in these countries. if you're talking about or can mix, it's difficult to be then verified in the u.s. that

organic paddocks and meeting the standards so we can imagine how this is happening in places like china. >> i was fascinated by her feminist view. you know, remember the ladies are you're going to be in trouble. i'm paraphrasing obviously. but she warned her has been. you cannot move without including the winning one of the women have to contribute. this is 1700s she's saying that.

>> before 1990, american warships are generally controlled waters that had little presence in the ground following the iranian revolution of 1979 and the pullout from lebanon a few years later. washington held a limited defense agreement with bahrain, but no one else. there were, for example, no u.s. troops in saudi arabia, nor any formal pledge to defend that kingdom or kuwait. in fact, on the eve as tensions grew, american policymakers to each of the gulf states the idea that perhaps a soviet good temperature of military exercise. let's show saddam we are in this together. of all the gore states, only

one, the united arab emirates even agree to the submitted demonstration of solidarity. they feared more than saddam, a public backlash3 they feared more than saddam, a public backlash from cavorting from the great. in fact, as saddam hussein directly told the united states ambassador before the invasion, he felt secure, secure in the belief that no arab government would ever allow the united states to use their land for that purpose. defending kuwait. that why was he so secure in his belief? for two reasons. first of the muslim have rechecked american troops on soil and because in practical terms, 90 days had ever done so since 1979. that was not a model that other arab leaders who should follow. saddam therefore believe muslim states would rechecked direct american aid and the stationing of troops on their soil.

in retrospect, perhaps the worst strategic miscalculation. but it is hardly an irrational one. american influence in the polls with offshore rather than on site. this is not the 38th parallel in korea. this is not places for american troops were stationed directly in harms way as tripwires of american resolve. on the contrary, american policymakers for decades had long hoped to influence the gulf and keep its oil flowing with this little direct involvement as possible so long as the soviets didn't interfere in the region themselves, president carter declared someone is iranian student stop at the gulf. president reagan declared a few years later american planners who by and large contests. ultimately it did not matter what happens to want happened so long as the oil continue to float and this is the bush administration's first line as well, and creating a year before saddam's invasion and latter

part of 1989 and national security directive 26, which laid out the full scope and rationale of american involvement in the region. this document, which you can get at the archive if you'd like, does not use the word freedom. it does not use the word democracy. it does not match in particular leaders or talk about machine types are radical islam and certainly doesn't mention wmds. he says instead, access to persian gulf oil is vital to national security interests. members of hostages in iran destroy barracks in beirut, that's reason enough to be wary of anything more. this context matters for understanding productive to do more in response to the iraqi invasion. for it did not threaten that long-range disruption of oil.

moreover, the middle east is not a particularly appealing place for those in american politics was short and medium and long-term history. take for example james baker who had at this point vice presidents for decades, but more importantly among closest friends for decades. he was secretary of state and upon hearing the news contemplating it getting back to washington. he closed the door and told him, quote, i know you're aware of the fact that this has all the ingredients that is brought down. the last five presidents. a hostage crisis, body bags and a full-fledged economic recession caused by oil, and quote. indeed, we need recall that bush's decision to move american troops to the polls with her they embraced across the board in 1990 pagis does the same time

the congressional opposition to the war was far from being partisan. it was rather conduct it out of the true sense of concern. as senate majority leader, george mitchell argued the risk of active american intervention were gray. he said, quote, these include an unknown number of casualties into the billions of dollars spent of oil supply and oil price increases of a war possibly went to israel, turkey or other allies, the long-term occupation increasing instability in the gulf region, long-lasting enmity and possible return to american isolationism, and quote. ..

his most recent book is "the thistle and the drone: how america's war on terror became a global war on tribal islam." is america's global war on terrorism, isn't a clash of civilization? >> i would say it is more complex. i find these concepts, the clash of civilization and other concepts related to this rather simplistic. and by now, 10 years, more than 10 years after 9/11, we should be aware of the conflicts of what's happening on the ground abroad where america is involved in the various wars.

i figh find in this particular y that many of these conflicts are rooted in the clash already taken place before 9/11 between central governments and the tribes and communities on their parade greece, on the borders, on the interspecies between states. so, therefore, an understanding of local culture, local history, it's impossible to impose the simplistic notion. i know that we here in the united states think of this as a clash of civilization, but i read -- summon and iran are human, they would just look aghast at the concept that there's a clash of civilization. 90% of survey in iran's surveyed had no idea what 9/11 was, or who osama bin laden was. so, therefore, have to be very careful of how we are analyzing. i maintain there's a crisis

already existing in both parts of the world where the united states is now drifted and got involved in local conflicts. >> ambassador, to locals in afghanistan, different tribes, duty city is as attacking their personal tribe or do they see their own afghanistan government? >> peter, you've now raised a very important question. erased a third actor. you have the united states, you have the tribes, you now raised the idea of the central government. cenei have a triangle of conflict, and that is the conflicts in the discussion that is often overlooked. now, when you include the central government then you know the central government has its own relationship with its own per referee. very often it's a troubled one. go right through the middle east, north africa, central asia and defined this. if the central government is tolerant and open and inclusive, and gives its citizens the rights they deserve, freedom,

education, the health, job of there's no problem. but if it depresses and suppresses and brutalizes its own population, you have problems. whether it's iraq under saddam hussein, whether syria were using the brutalization at its own people, you see the same thing. had coffee with the eastern tribes -- had coffee with the eastern tribes. we have looked at 40 cases. it makes it a global study of what is going on in the world. spin if you take pakistan as a case study and walkers to the different tribes and situation in your home country. >> pakistan is a central piece of the study. why? because waziristan which is in the tribal areas is one of the most targeted places on earth for the drone program. waziristan is also one of the

most highly tribal societies on the face of the earth, and it's traditionally never been completely conquered or subdued or incorporated into any government. it's part of pakistan and yet it maintains, the tribes and maintain their own independence with great pride in their own culture and in their own traditions. what they're funding from talking of the ordinary tribes, not the bad guys come with the ordinary tribesmen find, think about it, put yourselves in issues of the tribesmen, get under the skin and walk about. one day is being blown up by helicopters and artillery, the next day by these crazy suicide bombers. the third day by tribal rivals. the fourth day by drone strikes. and in late desperatidesperati on he sends his family out to waziristan. living in cities a destitute.

this page everyday is like 9/11 for us. so again go back to man in the village come and particularly the impact of women and children. it's whatever the debate about drones. remember there's a model which is often missing in the debate. the impact on women and children is devastating, and this has been documented in studies like the recent study by stanford and new york universities. >> dr. ahmed, you mentioned drones at a lot of your book, your newest book, "the thistle and the drone," talks about the drone situation. the big debate right now in washington. what's the view of drones in these tribal areas in afghanistan, pakistan? >> again, peter, you would debate. there's a debate in the united states is just starting and it will pick up, but a debate implies to opposing points of view. the debate in america is very one sided, so you only hear one

side. i would like to hear yemenis, somalis, pakistan's, kurds from east turkey who are also victims to the drone strikes, what are they saying and how are they responding to the drones? we don't hear their voices. win in this book we do to their voices. and what they are saying is that life for us it sure helped. what have we done to deserve this? they live every day. this is like a genocide. how are we to blame for some crazy guys who did something on 9/11? these are very impoverished areas, let her see rates, facilities are barely, they are nonexistent. i wouldn't say they're barely existent. they are nonexistent. on top of that you have this violence that's inflicted on the. to you can imagine the situation. from that you have the breakdown of traditionaof the traditional.

this is very important to understand. tribal society rests on three pillars. tribal leadership based in congeniality, religious leadership, and central government authority. all three pillars stand demolished in waziristan. the people have targeted them are the suicide bombers. they have killed something like 400 elders over waziristan. peter, that is decapitating an entire society, literally like bashing it is a headless society. in that society, along comes the drone. which expect the next generation to be doing? and give drones, suicide bombers blowing themselves up in schools, and mosques, bus stops. it's completely a breakdown of society, and it's affecting a big nation. pakistan is a nation of 185 million people. its nuclear and it's very troubled about the idea of the

drone. apart from talk of sovereignty and violating national order, et cetera. more damage that is upset, truly educated the people. >> ambassador ahmed come to talk about president obama having a love of drones. >> these are the reports that are published about president obama's relationship with the drones. there was a rolling stones article which was quoted, and this is after is coming in -- is a scholarly man, a compassion and i would have thought that he would handle it slightly differently. but the drone use has gone up exponentially in fact, and their impact on the societies that i'm covered in this book has been devastating. so some way we need to connect the dots. some way we need to say, the book pressing the button somewhere in the midwest or far west in the united states, and across the world, entire families and communities and women and children, people going to a funeral, people going to a

wedding party are being blown up. and then shall we say collateral damage, they are also being killed. we need to connect these two very different worlds and said ultimate is this what we, the united states of america, is this what we stand for? is this what we are exporting to the world? >> how do we connect those dots? >> i think the debate has to begin and it has to be multidimensional. it has to be more than just about security and the public out of. it is bad. it for important, those are crucial elements. but united states also stands for morale the, ethics, the vision of the founding fathers them a certain kind society, civilization. civil liberties washington's only book has the title disabilities. so these are crucial facets and features of the american vision. and i believe that our challenge. i think that debate will come.

>> does the u.s. come in your view, have legitimate security concerns? >> it does. because the united states was hit on 9/11. there's no doubt about it. completely out of the blue one fine morning as it were. it has every right to be concerned. it has taken every kind of precaution, rightly. and has maintained that high level of security. ambassadors have been killed recently we saw this extraordinary accomplished diplomat killed in benghazi and, therefore, we need to be concerned about it. at the same time the united states is more than just one aspect of its concerns about hostility. it represents something much bigger. and on the global stage, peter, to me at least, the united states symbolizes something that i think very few countries symbolize, and that is a vision of the world vision of society itself, just different to other societies. that is essentially compromised when you have these killings

which do not accept the normal processes of law, and end up by very often getting many, many more people than the so-called bad guys. >> ambassador at bar ahmed, a professor of islamic studies at american university, also a non-resident senior fellow at the brookings institution, a visiting professor at the u.s. naval academy. formerly served as pakistan's high commissioner to the uk and ireland, the author of several books. professor, are you a member of the tribe from your home country in pakistan? >> peter, that's a very interesting question. i have asked the question myself as an anthropologist. and it's critical to lay out there for the reader so everyone knows their place. my mother, yes, is, so i have her blood. my father belongs to a sacred try. is ancestry goes back to the holy prophet.

and the two i always found a very interesting in my make up the so one the one hand there's the warrior, there's the man of action. and on the other hand, the person who would want peace and create goodwill and bring people together and compassion, more thoughtful and even more mystical. and sometimes these two are in conflict in me, and i see this in me. so i found that when i was doing this study i was able to get under the skin of the tribal people because that is also part of my heritage. but i could also reach beyond that and transcend that to reach out and find ways of bringing people together. because it isn't just one point of the triangle i talked about. it's also bringing in the central government and the united states and the tribal peoples and their elders so that somehow, together, dialogue begins and a solution is found. >> what's the role of pakistan as kind of a manufactured geographically country?

should it be split up? does it need to remain a nation of -- >> you know, if you go to any nation, whether it's pakistan or iraq, many of these nations are, as you said, just put together after the second world war. these are really modern states. they have an ancient history but some goes back thousands of years. but they have in modern history as a modern state. recent history. once they are made it very difficult to unmake them unless there's an intro crisis as took place in pakistan in 1971. pakistan has to be very careful, peter. because there are internal tensions and some of these are exacerbated by drone strikes your right now the tribal areas are inflamed. pakistan has lost something like 55 -- 35 to 40,000 people. the army is involved. every day in the paper you read soldiers are killed by suicide

bombers. they in turn fight their own people and there's a conflict, muslims fighting muslims, killing muslims. it is creating a lot of tension in society. the government is not necessary popular. it's not seen as particularly competent pixels all kinds of internal tension. there was tension with india on the border. we have to always remember that this is a part of the world, peter, which combines one and a half billion people. that's one for the community, both pakistan and india are nuclear. so i think the united states been a key ally of pakistan right now, pakistan is a major ally. the interest of the united states is to make sure that the features, the institutions, the foundations of democracy are strong, that good, clean leadership emerges and that the people of pakistan involved in the processes of law of

decision-making of democracy. >> at what point, professor, in your view, did u.s. policy in afghanistan, troops in afghanistan go awry? >> i think, peter, initially the tension -- intention was good to iraq, i think it's a great desire to promote democracy and so. i think where it went awry was the fact that you can to provide with special knowledge of those societies. i think slightly different announce it. and remember i've been in the field. i've been an administrator, and very successfully, tackle problems with the major problems, bad guys, et cetera crossed the border, without having to sort moving heavy artillery. where we went wrong i believe is, how we note a bit more about the culture, the languages, the sensitivities, it would have made the task much, much easier for us to end that happened.

you know, the famous surge in iraq, or the attempt in afghanistan, they really were a result of some extraordinary things like general mcchrystal, for example, to begin to understand after years in the field in afghanistan that this message is straightforward confrontation would not work. this is a nation facing some the greatest conquerors of history to come and go. they have not been defeated. recently we saw the british empire in afghanistan ultimately defeated. the soviets defeated. so what made us assume that we are so different that we will deny or reverse history itself? at great cost to themselves. fiercely independent people. they fight with each other or foreigners or invaders. so had understood the mechanics, i think we could handle it very differently. and then promoted what needed to be promoted and strengthened our

own footprint in afghanistan. education, health care, reaching out to these local commuters, local governments, all these are wanted. they would welcome americans. i was educated at an american college, former christian college run by an american presbyterian. we produced several presidents, neighbors of parliament. every one of us is so grateful to the american before us. so why don't we give colleges and schools to set up wasting billions and billions and billions paying for wars which in the end resulted in -- [inaudible] >> ambassador ahmed, you write in the trenton about a recent survey of american and afghan soldiers. this is how the afghans view the american. they always shout. they are crazy to they always were costly saying f. you.

their arrogance sickens us. they don't care about civilian casualties. they p. all over right in front of civilians including females. >> peter, of course, with the americans thought of -- and i go to the next that is what the americans thought of the afghan forces. they are kurds. we're better off without them. i don't trust locals. i would never like to admit that iraqis are smarter, but they are einstein's compared afghans. these guys only seem to care about their own tribes. >> back to the tries. they are right. so you still interesting come this is an american survey conducted in washington, a political survey. and this gives us an insight into to allies. remember, these are two sets of soldiers that are working together. soldier -- shoulder to shoulder, whose job is to protect each

other. that allows me because after a decade. him if you're not able to make friends in the very people he you invested billions of dollars, the americans have spent all his money trying to build the cq to forces and the army so that when america leave afghanistan, these troops will take over. if this is what they're thinking of, americans, ask yourself the question. what is the legacy we're living behind? >> i want to go back to one of the original questions. do the afghans understand what american soldiers are in the country? >> no. i give you the survey. a lot of them, remember, that part of the world including pakistan, including the middle east is a great area for -- someone will say it's access to the central asian gas and oil feels the very few would say that this is because of the good

intentions of the americans and promoting democracy. so we would have a for a lot of mixed response to my own belief, after the study, iran, pakistan is given to understand why the americans are not there. they need to be there. that's a different picture and i've always supported the president of the united states. to have a presence in the region to get china on one second in the to the south, russia energy to the north, the united states just can't get up and walk away. but are we able to convince the people there, our local hosts and potential allies, that we need to be there? that is the question. that is were i believe there has been inferior. >> but we are, our footprint is going to be much smaller after 2014. >> that is again a choice we're making and i'm not entirely happy. i would want a different kind of footprint. i mentioned before, peter, if you would colleges like the one i went to which but what is the

university now, and have opened up a woman's when, if you attend these in afghanistan, tribal areas, think of the impact. into the future generation. in one stroke your changing the direction of the nation. if we value education, knowledge, law, compassionate civil society, we must understand, peter, so do the pakistanis. we must try to convey this to them. not the fact that we just have soldiers and guns and silos and drones. because of that, you have local society resisting. so the paradigm has to be thought out, and that paradigm can all be thought out if the debate begins. am hoping that we will act as a catalyst to this debate spent professor ahmed, how does the sunni shiite issue that we we've talked about for the last 10 to 15 years play into this?

>> it does and it doesn't. it does in the sense that there is a large shia minority in pakistan and in afghanistan. they play an important role in the army. it isn't out in the surface yet. it's still under the surface. but what the suicide bombers are doing, and the taliban are doing because of their very extreme understanding of sunni islam, they are also targeting the she. for example, in pakistan, they killed 100 shia. that's a poll. a complete breakdown of law and order. no government can allow that, and yet it happens. so that something -- iran is a very strong, aggressive shia power and it has interest in the region. so again it bears its own great king. that balance has to be kept. so if you have an understanding, i think it can be -- [inaudible]

spent the country of mali is emerging as a battleground. spent yes, a team it is in the book. repo book. it has exactly the same paradigm. you have been hearing about the tribes. tribesman like the with your tribesmen and others and was just and. they have been marginalized. they are mineral resources have been stolen. they have been treated as third grade citizens on their own traditional lands by the central government. so there comes a point when they say enough is enough. they have been killed and raped and tortured. they will react. unfortunately, this is not a very civilized or very educated part of the world. these are tribesmen to most of them are illiterate. the only ex-going to their own tribal court. and the code is the law of olympics as they go out, chopping people's hands, telling people, to the pacific rim and responds. western targets involved.

very quickly the cycle begins again. and again we are not understanding the dynamics. the dynamics is the center. if you can help resolve the, you solve the problem. if you can't resolve that, hammering them and throwing bombs at them is not going to resolve it because the central conflict will remain untouched spent in your book you talked about the philippines. what is going on there? >> philippines against them situation, exactly the same. muslim minority group in certain parts of the philippines. they have been independent for centuries. they are seeing the same process. the central government coming in very aggressively taking their land, converting their land by settlers from outside into lands where suddenly they become a minority in their own land. and in the philippines i found something interesting, peter. the philippines of taken an initiative to reach out to these tribal groups and bring them on board.

and how do they do this? simply negotiated, if you want to preserve their culture and customs, fine, it's not as you're not prevail against the state. we have no objection. and just that simple initiative, that simple human act. and the remarkable general who actually stood up, think of an american general doing this, in front of the population and apologize for what we've done, atrocities. and i apologize. people are trying. the mayor was in tears. because again, he reached out to the human side of the enemy. again, walking with the skin, under the skin of the other side if you do that, things start to change. and i think, peter, we have to start with other programs in order to impose some sort of stability and law and order in these rather turbulent regions of the world. >> what about the use of the

drones? >> remember, this whole drone program is covered, this information, vagueness, darkness, all kinds of clouds. neither you or i know any idea of this. drones have been used there, and maybe they were, may be delivered and this is another tragedy i think of the present situation, that -- i asked, for the study i asked an american, i said who is behind the creation of these militant suicide bombers in the tribal areas of pakistan? and without thinking they said, pakistanis. and i said, why would we be wanting to both own schools and buses? i asked pakistanis the same question. without hesitation he said, they said americans. now, if this is the situation on the ground we have allies who

don't trust each other, work of the local people who have no idea why the americans are there, you need to clarity of vision. that must come from washington. why? this is a superpower. this is the power driving to work in a sense and driving this war on terror what is the long-term vision of the united states? what does it want to communicate to them? and how is it going to go about the? that clarity will help. you know, with light, darkness, right now there's a lot of darkness on the drone programs. >> professor ahmed, where did the title "the thistle and the drone" come from? >> you know, peter, i'm a professor on campus and the love ideas. we were told of tolstoy, the great russian novelist, his character is a company the russian army in the mountains. they are fighting moslem tribes.

and defianc he fights, he goes a walk and defines a flower, he plucks the flour and its of this appeared to fizzle is very prickly, and he says these tribes are just like the fissile. remember, the symbol of scotland. i met scott, i know, i have great respect and affection for them. the scots are very much like the thistle to deprive themselves on their tradition and culture. you can't walk over them. very tough resistance to the english over history. and western commentators have very often compared muslim tribesmen the scotsman. so very often doesn't have compared, particularly in the tribal areas. they are like the thistle, prickly and hard and they're very fiercely independent. so i thought that the thistle

represent one kind of surprise today in the 21st century, and the drone represent another kind of surprised. it is the ultimate killing machine of the age of globalization. it's sleek. you don't see. you don't see where it's coming, was behind it, why is it coming at all? is a coming at all? is being denied it ever came? very much like wall street, you have no idea what they were doing, how they were doing it, whether you could even call them up for retribution or for other uses of law. and they got away with it. so you want in a society in confrontation with another kind of society. and again, i believe that these issues have to be discussed in the context of the age of globalization. we are living as a global society. anything we do in the united states as in fact over there. and vice versa. therefore, this type tries to integrate the two spent and we've been talking with american